The Last Days: The Book of Revelation Written Before AD 70
77Death on the Pale Horse
The Last Days: The Book of Revelation Written Before AD 70
Introduction
Establishing when The Revelation was written is pivotal to acquiring a more accurate understanding of the 'End Times'.
In my opinion, the 'Last Days', the 'Day of the Lord' and 'Christ’s Second Coming' described in The Revelation took place at the destruction of the Temple, Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the Jews in AD 70. Futurist teachings and Dispensationalism in particular strongly object to this proposal.
The Futurist view is therefore in favour of a 'Post' AD 70 date of writing, to strengthen their case for The Revelation having a future fulfilment.
The 'Post' AD 70 position is based on the writings of the Church Fathers and tradition, primarily a 2nd century reference taken from the writings of Irenaeus, which is found in the work of Eusebius, Book 5, and Chapter 8.
I will attempt to convince the reader that the 'Pre' AD 70 date is the correct one, by allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture.
A Quote from Robert Young's Concise Commentary on the Holy Bible (1865)
Introduction to The Revelation
'It was written in Patmos (about A.D. 68), whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac Version of the Book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus (A.D. 175), who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou, i.e. Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius Severus, Orosius, &c., stupidly mistaking Domitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder.......'
Irenaeus’ Quote: The Only Grounds for the Late Date Theory
'We, therefore, do not venture to affirm anything with certainty respecting the name of antichrist. For were it necessary that his name should be clearly announced to the present age, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it has not been long since it was seen, but almost in our own generation, about the end of Domitian’s reign.’ (Irenaeus, Against Heresies).
I fail to understand why most Scholars today confidently date The Revelation around AD 95, since the source of this quotation is a Latin translation of the original. I can only conclude that it accommodates their Eschatological presupposition.
Several Church Fathers record that Domitian (AD 51- AD 96) was Roman Emperor when John wrote The Revelation; however, it is possible that they also based their information on the writings of Irenaeus.
Evidence to support the ‘Pre’ AD 70 writing of The Revelation includes a quote from Clement of Alexandria (AD 150-AD 220), who plainly stated that it was Nero who banished John to Patmos, not Emperor Domitian.
The Word of God is our final authority and it makes sense to search the Scriptures to find the answer, rather than being dependent upon an ambiguous quote passed on by the Church Fathers.
Hebrews 12:22-24 and The Revelation
Heb 12:22-24 KJV But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
The Epistle to the Hebrews was written 'Pre' AD 70, and includes quotes from The Revelation. The writer and the Hebrew believers were obviously familiar with The Revelation given to John!
The Writer to the Hebrews Quoted Many Old Testament Scriptures in His Epistle, He Also Quoted Phrases Totally Unique to The Revelation!
‘mount Zion’
| Hebrews 12:22
| Revelation 14:1
|
‘city of the living God’
| Hebrews 12:22
| Revelation 3:12; 21:10
|
‘heavenly Jerusalem’
| Hebrews 12:22
| Revelation 3:12; 21:10
|
‘company of angels’
| Hebrews 12:22
| Revelation 5:11; 7:11
|
‘church of the firstborn’
| Hebrews 12:23
| Revelation 3:12; 7:4; 14:1
|
‘God the Judge of all’
| Hebrews 12:23
| Revelation 20:11-12
|
‘spirits of just men’
| Hebrews 12:24
| Revelation 14:3-5
|
‘Jesus the mediator’
| Hebrews 12:24
| Revelation 5:6-9
|
‘blood of sprinkling’
| Hebrews 12:24
| Revelation 5:9
|
James 1:12 and The Revelation
James is also worthy of mention because of one small but significant gem of information.
Jas 1:12 KJV Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Rev 2:10 KJV Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
The only reference to The Revelation’s ‘...Crown of Life...’ is found in the Epistle of James.
Is it unreasonable to suggest that the Apostle James had read The Revelation?
2 Peter 2:15 and The Revelation
2Pe 2:15 KJV Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
Rev 2:14-15 KJV But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Nicolaus, in Greek, has the same meaning as Balaam in Hebrew; John called the followers of Balaam ‘Nicolaitans’.
The dilemma troubling The Revelation’s Seven Churches of Asia was the same issue being addressed in the Epistles of Peter and Jude. Peter even included Asia amongst others on his mailing list…1 Peter 1:1 and said they were ‘…following the way of Balaam…’ That was precisely the charge against the Nicolaitans in The Revelation!
Since a ‘Pre’ AD 70 date is attributed to 2nd Peter and Jude, then the early date for The Revelation can hardly be denied.
In my opinion, this proves that The Revelation is not a 'stand alone' book in the Bible, but plays a significant part in the 'Pre' AD 70 Church.
St John on Patmos
The Temple and The Revelation
Rev 11:1 KJV And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
John was told to measure the Temple, the altar, and them that worshipped, which strongly implies that the Temple was still standing when he wrote The Revelation.
A Quote from Adam Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible
Revelation 11:1 'And there was given me a reed - See Eze_40:3, etc.Measure the temple of God - This must refer to the temple of Jerusalem; and this is another presumptive evidence that it was yet standing. Revelation 11:2 ' But the court - is given unto the Gentiles - The measuring of the temple probably refers to its approaching destruction, and the termination of the whole Levitical service; and this we find was to be done by the Gentiles, (Romans), who were to tread it down forty-two months; i.e., just three years and a half, or twelve hundred and sixty days. This must be a symbolical period.'
A Quote from W Graham Scroggie, DD (Edin) ‘Know Your Bible’
Revelation 11 'The reference to Jerusalem and the Temple in chapter 11 seems clearly to imply their existence at the time the Book was written; and this, together with the expectation of Christ’s speedy second coming, accords well with the early date. If this view be correct the Revelation was the first of John’s Writings, not the last, though its subject-matter naturally gives it its place as the conclusion of the New Testament and of all revelation.'
Rev 11:2 KJV But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Dan 12:7 KJV And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
‘…to scatter the power of the holy people…’ Daniel prophesied that a defining characteristic of the end of the Old Covenant Age would be the dispersion of the Jews.
History records that national catastrophe and it coincided with the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in AD 70. All these things would be accomplished during ‘...a time, times, and an half...’ Most commentators agree that in prophetic language a ‘...time...’ is one year, ‘...times...’ is two years, and ‘...half...’ is half a year, the equivalent of forty-two months.
Luk 21:24 KJV And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Jesus prophesied the imminent fulfilment of Daniel 12:7 during His Olivet discourse, when He foretold the events leading to the destruction of the Temple, Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the Jews. It is interesting to note, the times of the Gentiles and the treading down of Jerusalem was prophesied to include a forty-two months period of time, the exact duration of the Jewish-Roman War prior to AD 70.
Therefore The Revelation must have been written before the destruction of the Temple, Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the Jews.
Luk 21:32 KJV Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
The disciples asked Jesus about the destruction of the Temple in Luke 21:6-7, and He told them it would be destroyed before their generation passed away. Obviously that generation has passed away, and all has been fulfilled.
Caesar Nero and The Revelation
Rev 17:10 KJV And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
The historian Suetonius’ chronology of the Emperors:
Julius; Augustus; Tiberius; Gaius/Caligula, and Claudius are the ‘…five are fallen…’
Nero was Roman Emperor (AD 54-AD 68) and was the ‘…and one is…’
John wrote in the present tense '...and one is ...', therefore Nero was ruling at the time John was writing The Revelation.
Galba was the ‘…other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space...’
Incredibly Galba only ruled a matter of months and was the first of ‘The Year of the Four Emperors’ in AD 69, a time ‘…of wars and rumours of wars…’…Matthew 24:6.
Four Emperors ruled in remarkably quick succession, evidence of the turmoil in the Roman Empire leading to AD 70. These four Emperors were Galba; Otho; Vitellius, and Vespasian.
The Imminent Fulfilment and The Revelation
Rev 1:3 KJV Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:7 KJV Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Rev 22:10 KJV And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:20 KJV He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
How can these Scriptures affirming the Lord's imminent return be ignored by today's Bible Scholars?
If The Revelation was written in AD 95, what major event took place within months or a few years of its publication? The answer is none! However, by acknowledging The Revelation was written during the reign of Nero the question is easily answered by pointing to the Great Tribulation, which ended in the destruction of the Temple, Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the Jews in AD 70.
It would have been cruel to say the least if John wrote The Revelation for believers during a time of Great Tribulation and persecution under the Emperor Nero, with a message from the Lord about His imminent glorious return, only to be told that the detail of events written would not transpire for thousands of years.
The Healing of the Cripple of Bethesda
Topography and The Revelation
Topography: The study of the detailed mapping or charting of the features of a relatively small area, district, or locality.
Joh 5:2 KJV Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Most theologians today assign the four writings of John to AD 90-95; academic credibility would be in question if it could be proven from the Scriptures that all were written before AD 70.
A strong argument for the ‘Pre’ AD 70 date for the Gospel of John is that of topography.
An illustration can be found in the healing of the cripple in John 5:5. John told of a pool by the sheep gate called ‘…Bethesda, having five porches...’ This is a significant statement because these porches at Bethesda were buried under the rubble when Jerusalem was levelled in AD 70!
John clearly wrote, ‘…there is at Jerusalem...’ not ‘...there was at Jerusalem...’ in John 5:2. If John was writing around AD 90-95, he would not have used the present tense, therefore John must have written his Gospel prior to AD 70. See C H Dodd’s Historical Tradition In The Fourth Gospel, for further study along this line.
A Quote from John Wesley’s Explanatory Notes
John 5:2 ‘There is in Jerusalem - Hence it appears, that St. John wrote his Gospel before Jerusalem was destroyed: it is supposed about thirty years after the ascension. Having five porticos - Built for the use of the sick. Probably the basin had five sides! Bethesda signifies the house of mercy.’
The destruction of Jerusalem, the Temple, and the dispersion of the Jews were to the Jew the ultimate catastrophe, yet John made no mention of these calamities in His writings.
Why was this? John wrote prior to the tragedy happening.
A Quote from John A T Robinson (1919-1983)
‘one of the oddest facts about the New Testament is that what on any showing would appear to be the single most datable and climactic event of the period - the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and with it the collapse of institutional Judaism based on the Temple - is never once mentioned as a past fact.’
Robinson commented further saying ‘...the silence is nevertheless as significant as the silence for Sherlock Holmes of the dog that did not bark...’
Speaking more specifically of John's Gospel, Robinson wrote ‘...there is nothing that suggests or presupposes that the Temple is already destroyed or that Jerusalem is in ruins...’
'...Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of...' Jesus in His reply to James and John explicitly predicted their martyrdom. Did Jesus get it wrong? Of course He didn't. In my opinion, it is reasonable to suggest that John did not live to old age but was also martyred during the Great Tribulation prior to AD 70.
John's Demise
Joh 21:22 KJV Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Not only is there conflict of opinion over the dating of The Revelation but the year of John’s demise is also open to question.
Many scholars go as far as to suggest that Jesus predicted John would not die until the Parousia had taken place, thereby supporting their flawed argument that he lived into old age and beyond AD 95. If their assumption is correct, then according to Futurist Eschatology, Jesus’ prophecy failed. That is assuming John is dead and Christ has not returned!
Mar 10:37-39 KJV They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory. 38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? 39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
'...Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of...' Jesus in His reply to James and John explicitly predicted their martyrdom. Did Jesus get it wrong? Of course He didn't. In my opinion, it is reasonable to suggest that John did not live to old age, but was also martyred during the Great Tribulation prior to AD 70.
Post Apostolic Writing
Col 1:23 KJV If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
If the AD 95 date of The Revelation were correct, it would be post Apostolic literature. According to Paul, he fulfilled the great Commission during his lifetime.
Why would it be necessary to unveil The Revelation after the New Testament Scriptures were complete? …Acts 17:6; Romans 1:8; Romans 16:25-26; Colossians 1:5-6.
A Quote from Robert Young's Concise Commentary on the Holy Bible (1865)
Introduction to The Revelation
'It was written in Patmos (about A.D. 68), whither John had been banished by Domitius Nero, as stated in the title of the Syriac Version of the Book; and with this concurs the express statement of Irenaeus (A.D. 175), who says it happened in the reign of Domitianou, i.e. Domitius (Nero). Sulpicius Severus, Orosius, &c., stupidly mistaking Domitianou for Domitianikos, supposed Irenaeus to refer to Domitian, A.D. 95, and most succeeding writers have fallen into the same blunder. The internal testimony is wholly in favour of the earlier date. The temple at Jerusalem was still standing (ch. 11.1-10); the exact duration of the siege is foretold, viz., 42 months, 31/2 years, or 1260 days; the two witnesses are to be slain in the city where our Lord was crucified; Nero was reigning at the time, for it is said of the seven kings of Rome; 'five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come, and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.' The five kings are Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius. The 'one who is ' is Nero; the one who 'must continue for a short space' is Galba, who reigned only seven months. Everywhere the events are 'to come quickly,' lit. 'with haste,' or speed (ch. 1.1; 2.16; 3.11; 11.14; 22.7, 12, 20). The escape of the Christian Jews from Jerusalem to Pella is undoubtedly referred to in ch. 7.1-8, compared with Mat. 24.30.'
The Book of Revelation
Do you believe the Book of Revelation was written before AD 70?
See results without votingConclusion
Contrary to popular opinion, although The Revelation is the last book in the Bible, it does not mean that it was the last book to be written. The books of the Bible are not in chronological order.
Having compared the examples given from Scripture for accepting the 'Pre' AD 70 against the only evidence in support of a 'Post' AD 70 late date, ask yourself this question:
Can I risk misinterpreting the Scriptures on the basis of an ambiguous statement taken from Irenaeus’ writings, or should I allow Scripture to interpret Scripture?
Either way, our answer will have a profound effect on our understanding of Eschatology.
What do you think?
The Last Days: The Millennium Jesus Never Mentioned!...Read More>>
|
Calvin Institutes of the Christian Religion 2 Volume Set HC DJ 1960 John McNeill
Current Bid: $189.00
|
|
A Reader's Guide to Calvin's Institutes Anthony N. S. Lane THEOLOGY John Calvin
Current Bid: $2.50
|
 | Amazon Price: $89.95 |
 | Amazon Price: $19.48 List Price: $23.95 |
 | Amazon Price: $3.94 List Price: $6.00 |
vote upvote downshareprintflag
- Useful (4)
- Funny
- Awesome (3)
- Beautiful (3)
- Interesting (5)
CommentsLoading...
Lady Guinevere
Thank you for reading and commenting on my Hub.
Brilliantly worded and masterfully constructed - voted up all around!!!
My only objection is that I didn't write it myself! :0)
Indeed. How many times did the New Testament allude to a first century fulfillment? Probably dozens of times with phrases such as: The axe is at the base of the tree; the hour grows late; the end is near; the hour is at hand; "I am coming quickly"; this generation will not pass away; even those who pierced me shall see; "Yes, I am coming soon" - just to name a few.
It is most unfortunate that many "Christians" of our day cannot see the forest through the trees nor can they see the simplicity of its message. They have been seduced by the spirit of error and thus thinking themselves to be wise they have become fools.
Truly, it would be a cruel hoax, indeed, if our Lord and Savior said, "Yes, I am coming soon" and then made the saints wait 2,000 years to make good on His promise.
I categorically deny that the phrases in the New Testament relating to expediency can somehow be misconstrued as 2,000 years or more! This is to say that one could not misconstrue the promise "I am coming soon" to mean, "I will see you in a couple thousand years from now".
Should we be led to believe that Our Lord and Savior does not know how to tell time or that He does not say what He means or means what He says? Should we believe that He is a cosmic comedian, or worse...a liar?!
Certainly the misinformed and misguided will say, "Surely the Bible says that a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years to the Lord." And, of course they would be right. However, the Lord never tells humans about events happening in this world using His eternal time clock, which would only serve to confuse us. Those that would argue this point don't know the Lord well at all.
In fact if we looked at Daniel 8:26, "The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future." Of course the Angel of God who gave Daniel this vision was referring to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who died in Persia in 164 B.C..
The point I wanted to make is that from the time Daniel was shown this vision (around 535 B.C.), to the time of its fulfillment, a little less than 400 years had elapsed.
Please note that the Angel referred to the 371 years before this vision's fulfillment as "the distant future". So, if 371 years is regarded by the Heavenly messenger as the distant future, what strong delusion one must be under to believe that when Jesus said, "Yes, I am coming soon", that He meant waiting 2,000 years or more!
I think one of the many problems with contemporary Christianity is that the "saints" do not study enough and they listen to the wrong "authorities".
One thing that contemporary Christians should consider is that God means what He says and says what He means, but they do not want to accept it for one reason or another. Either they are misguided, misunderstand or have given in to strong delusions. I know quite a few people who try to make the Bible say things that agree with their personal theologies and with their personal politics. A lot of good that will do them on Judgment Day.
Best wishes and may peace be with you - L.R.
Lone Ranger
Thank you for reading my Hub and leaving a very encouraging comment, which I agree with entirely.
I have been a Christian for over 40 years with a keen interest in Prophecy and the ‘End Times’. I often ask myself why I didn’t see this viewpoint sooner.
My other Hubs are mostly on this subject; your opinion would be most welcome.
Greetings Sister,
I agree with you on all this.... well thought out and researched and written.. It's always good to remember that the Church(professing) will always be a step behind both in the times and the truth.. Looking for that sign which has already occured and being confounded by the elementary simple basic things.. Like knowing the difference between love and hate.. Oh my what a dreadful day for those who have perverted the love and justice of our Father ..
Continued Grace and Peace be unto you from our Father who dwells on high.. :0)..
PAMITCHRUS
Thank you for taking the time to read my Hub, and for your comment.
Searchinsany:
I failed to mention, my friend, that the dating of Revelation is, indeed, a topic of the utmost importance, as you wisely noted.
If one were so inclined to deceive the faithful relating to Christ's Second Coming, all one would have to do is place the Revelation of John years after the fact and it would then confuse and confound the faithful for thousands of years to come. Suddenly every low-point in human history would then become the "Great Tribulation" and every wicked king would then become the dreaded "Anti-christ".
I had always thought it strange that if Revelation was written in A.D. 95-96 as commonly believed, why didn't John mention the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 or the deaths of Peter and Paul which took place in or around A.D. 64? There are some historical events recorded in God's Word that, although important, seem to pale in comparison to these events, yet they were never mentioned.
Of course the late date of 96 A.D. would also take the line of caesars out of contention as a viable lineage of the Anti-christ whereby the "five have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come...." would then have to read: "Eleven have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come...."
I, too, picked up on the fact that John was instructed to take measurements of the Temple, but since it had been previously destroyed in A.D. 70, how would this have been possible? And so it goes.
Peace be with you - L.R.
Lone Ranger
Many believers rightly proclaim that the Bible is the inspired word of God and our final authority in matters of Doctrine.
In this Hub I have attempted to prove the early date of The Revelation from the Scriptures, without dependence on non-biblical sources.
Once again your comment contributes some interesting insights.
Thank you.
I know we both agree that the Book of Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, but do you also think it was written before the death of Paul and Peter, who were martyred around 64 A.D., since it never specifically mentioned their deaths? And, do you know of any instances where the other New Testament writers referred to anything written in the Book of Revelations?
C J
Thank you for your comment; you raise some very interesting points.
I have tried to research the deaths of the Apostles from historical evidence and ended up none the wiser, I decided to accept only what information I could find in the Scriptures.
The Revelation was a vision given to John of the imminent Return of Christ, it was not an Epistle in which one might expect references to the other Apostles.
I am persuaded that James and Paul (if he was the writer of Hebrews) referred to The Revelation.
The Epistles of Peter and Jude were written before AD 70 and both confronted those who held the ‘…doctrine of Balaam…’ This was an issue also addressed in Revelation 2, which suggests a link to the same time period.
What do you think?
I am of the opinion that not all books within Scripture refer to other authors and books and not all books of the New Testament refer to other books and authors of the Bible, although most do.
So, in and of itself, the lack of reference points does not seem to hinder the reliability of the Book of Revelation; it just makes it a little more difficult to date the writing. We are, therefore, only able to make inferrences as to the date of its publication based on circumstantial evidence and reason.
For instance: Peter and Paul were martyred around 64 A.D., but the Book of Revelation did not mention their deaths, which I consider to be events of Biblical significance.
Then again, the acutal fall of Jerusalem and its horrific aftermath was never described in Revelation in all its horror, but the coming destruction of Jerusalem was mentioned. In Luke 21:20-22 we read, (20)"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its destruction is near. (21)Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. (22)For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written."
We know that General Cestius Gallus invaded Judea from the north. In 66 A.D. he had surrounded Jerusalem with his Roman legions and infiltrated Jerusalem itself, then for reasons unknown to humanity, he simply left.
This allowed the Jewish Christians to flee to the mountains as instructed in Luke 21:20-21. This would then place the publication of Revelation earlier than 66 A.D., and taking into consideration the deaths of Peter and Paul in 64 A.D., we can logically conclude that Revelation must have been written sometime prior to 64 A.D.
I find it also interesting that in Luke 21:20 from which we read, "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its destruction is near", that its destruction was only 4 years away. How then can contemporary Christians believe that when Jesus said, "Yes, I am coming soon", that He meant 2,000 years later?
I have often thought that if Christians of this day were teletransported back to Jerusalem in 66 A.D. and saw the "Abomination of Desolation" standing in Jerusalem (Cestius Gallus and the Roman Legions), but were as misguided then as they are now, then perhaps they would have thought to themselves that they had upwards of 2,000 years before they needed to flee to the mountains, because, after all, the word "near" can mean "soon" or "thousands of years from now". Just a thought. :0)
C J
Many thanks for your contribution, it is a very interesting comment. Any further insights are most welcome, on any of my Hubs.
Blessings to ALL In JESUS' Holy Name Forever - Amen & Amen.
Read once that Antiochus Epiphanes was "The Abomination that maketh DESOLATE".
Naturally wrong of course, because JESUS refers to "IT" in The Future Tense and Antiochus Epiphanes was LONG GONE, before The Virgin Birth Of Christ - Amen.
The Lord ALSO, (once only in this same context - Matthew 24 : 15 & Mark 13 : 14) Says "whoso readeth, let him understand:"
Holy Spirit Future Anticipation Tense Spoken, Knowing The Same WILL Be READ After The Speaking - AMEN.
Antichrist is a spirit that possesses people. History is replete with multiple notable examples : the caesars; muhammad; genghis khan & multiple moslem warlords to name just a handful prior to the 19th century. To compile a full pre-19th century list would be a mighty endeavour indeed.
However, charles darwin, kaiser wilhelm 2, adolf hitler (THE WORST OF THEM ALL ACROSS HISTORY), tojo, hirohito, pol pot, the ayatollahs, saddam hussein, osama bin laden, are more recently famous ANTICHRIST possessed people.
ADOLF HITLER was the darkest, crowned prince of HELL when compared with them ALL.
MUHAMMAD likewise, and the antichrist legacy of THE False prophet plagues the entire planet RIGHT NOW - April AD 2012.
John's Gospel was definitely completed before AD 70 (John 5 : 2) - Present Tense Sheep Gate in existence, BUT destroyed in AD 70.
Most likely John's Gospel was ready for Distribution to The Church, as with the other Three Gospels, while the Key Events were "fresh in the Spiritual Mind of the earthly writers".
No doubt Notes were also taken during JESUS' Sermons.
Never mind anyway, God IS The Lord of TIME.
The Holy Spirit Speaks ALL THE TIME.
JESUS' Prophecy over John WAS Fulfilled, BECAUSE, He Appeared to John in the Patmos Prison.
JOHN Was "Given" The Book Of Revelation To Write IN the Patmos Prison in the midst of the Aegean Sea.
The Holy Spirit Divinely Bestowed The ORIGINAL Manuscript OUT of the Prison and INTO the Hand Of The Church, where Faithful men of God PERFECTLY Copied the Manuscript for DISTRIBUTION.
How do we KNOW this :
† Revelation 1 : 10 - 11 †
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."
The Manuscript was in the Form Of A Book for Covered Protection THEN, and Prophetically Refers to NOW, in almost ALL global languages - Amen.
Perfect Copies of Copies of Copies Flowed through The Church in those days.
Copies with ERRORS were also made, BUT these form part of the second "man made" stream of manuscripts, REJECTED By Holy Ghost Baptized men of The Church.
Note : NIV and others : Rev 1 : 10-11 : "On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” [ALPHA AND OMEGA ARE GONE]
So, to revert : in the Patmos Prison John was SEEING Visions, and was Taken In The Spirit to that other "Dimension".
In this Dimension The Temple EXISTED and DOES EXIST.
Angels are Ministering spirits in The Spiritual Dimension like unto lucid night dreams we have ALL experienced.
John was IN THE SPIRIT. He did NOT try amd measure the destroyed remains of The Physical Temple (in the physical realm); he Measured that Place In The Spiritual Spitual Realm.
The destruction of The Temple EXISTS in this same Dimension - History (NOTE : The Judgment of souls after death based on RECORDS)
EVERYTHING PAST and Present and Notably Future EXISTS likewise.
Since this Hub is ABOUT "Time" and The Book Of Revelation is CLEARLY a "Temporal Vision", whether The Writing was before AD 70 or by the close of the First Century AD, is not TODAY what is MOST important; BUT, error IS pounced on by atheists to condemn The Truth Of The Faith, so 'We" had BETTER GET IT RIGHT - Amen
For The Record therefore, John (like Daniel's three friends, over 600 years earlier) was MIRACULOUSLY SAVED from death in BURNING oil ordered in Rome by emperor domitian. This Miracle Resulted in myriad Conversions To The True Faith THEN. (The Furnace in Daniel's Day was heated SEVEN TIMES HIGHER than normal. Boiling oil is THREE TIMES hotter than boiling water.
(The Books Of Daniel and Revelation ARE "Brothers" Across Time)
JESUS Prophesied The Survival from Certain Death by BOILING OIL (and other murder attempts) Over the young John some 48 years earlier.
John was then EXILED to Patmos by emperor domitian (Born AD 51 - Died AD 96) and THEN Commanded By The Lord To WRITE DOWN Everything, and Send The Word to the Seven churches in present day Turkey.
Domitian took over AFTER The Temple was destroyed by his older brother Titus in AD 70.
John was finally pardoned and allowed to return to Ephesus by either emperor nerva or trajan.
trajan was emperor from AD 98 to AD 117.
It is well established historical fact that the enraged domitian then sent John to The Patmos Prison (after the murder attempt specactularly FAILED) and either nerva or trajan pardoned and released John - THE WORK OF THE LORD Throughout.
domitian ruled from AD 81 - until his death in AD 96. nerva ruled from AD 96 - AD 98. trajan from AD 98 - AD 117.
These dates are so close to absolute accuracy, despite the missing 4 years, as to be moot in counter argument.
Should human error be in this we still have a date of AD 96 - AD 98 for the release of John back to Ephesus.
Likewise we have a sure date AFTER AD 81, for John's exile to Patmos by domitian, most likely AD 89 - AD 91, as Seven is God's Number, John likewise spent Seven years in Patmos.
The two year "unknown" is GOOD. Some things are best left alone "precisely".
SO WHAT'S THE POINT ? :-
1). NO offence intended, HONESTLY, but The Book of Revelation was NOT Written before AD 70 - QED....HOWEVER...
2). Things in The Holy Spirit are GOOD for All Of Time, and The Visions In Revelation are OUTSIDE of Time and Inside of NOW.
3). We are INFINITELY Blessed in AD 2012 to BE HERE NOW, and Look BACK across His-Story and Forward to The END of man-made time - ETERNAL LIFE STARTS RIGHT NOW For The Truly Saved - Alleluia.
4). The Blood Of Christ COVERS the sins of The True Believer, PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE - Amen.
5). The "ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE" stands where it OUGHT NOT, at this VERY MOMENT.
Construction began in AD 685 and was completed in AD 692 (7 years).
Here's a PICTURE OF IT : (Right Click and Open in New Tab or Window to avoid navigating away from this hub page) :-
http://www.Constellation7.org/AbominationOfDesolat
May this ALL SERVE To Build thy Faith HIGHER and STRONGER In JESUS' Holy Name - Amen and Amen
† Revelation 22 : 18 - 19 †
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
http://www.theseventhunders.org/C7-Music/AriseAndS
Right Click Above Link For Some Worship Music - Amen
PS : John read The Book of Hebrews. John read James & Peter's Writings.
Book Of Revelation References In Hebrews, James, Peter and elsewhere ARE Spiritual Mirrors.
The Holy Spirit Speaks to everyone ALL The Time.
The First Century Apostles "Heard" many of the same things, at different times in different places. Selah...
† 1 John 5 : 6 - 8 †
"This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood.
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
AMEN
Thank you for reading and commenting on my Hub. Having read your interesting comments I will attempt to reply to some of your points.
The reason I wrote this Hub was to provide evidence from the Scriptures to prove The Revelation was written before AD 70. This was prompted by reading contradictory writings from external sources.
Quote ‘The Lord ALSO, (once only in this same context - Matthew 24 : 15 & Mark 13 : 14) Says "whoso readeth, let him understand:" Holy Spirit Future Anticipation Tense Spoken, Knowing The Same WILL Be READ After The Speaking - AMEN.’
Mat 24:15-16 KJV When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Jesus referred to Daniel’s prophecy when He said ‘…whoso readeth, let him understand…’ He told His disciples to flee into the mountains when they see the ‘Abomination of Desolation’; this was fulfilled when the Remnant Church fled to the mountains of Pella during the Roman/Jewish war, which was prior to the destruction of the Temple in AD 70…Matthew 24:2.
Quote ‘JESUS' Prophecy over John WAS Fulfilled, BECAUSE, He Appeared to John in the Patmos Prison.’
Joh 21:22 KJV Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
If this is a reference John 21:22 I am not convinced that John’s vision on Patmos was the fulfilment of this prophecy. There are various schools of thought on this verse as to whether it was actually a prophecy appertaining to John’s lifespan. However the reason I included it was because many quote it to support the claim that John lived to old age. In my opinion Jesus predicted John's martyrdom in Mark 10:37-39.
Quote ‘The Manuscript was in the Form Of A Book for Covered Protection THEN, and Prophetically Refers to NOW, in almost ALL global languages - Amen.’
Rev 1:11 YLT `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.' Young’s Literal Translation.
There is no way of knowing if The Revelation was written in book form, it may well have been on a scroll. The KJV translated the Greek ‘Biblion’ as ‘book’, but on other occasions translated it ‘bill, scroll, writing’. The physical method of its preservation is not a determining factor as to whether it was written for today’s generation, understanding the timeline is the crucial factor.
Quote ‘John was IN THE SPIRIT. He did NOT try amd measure the destroyed remains of The Physical Temple (in the physical realm); he Measured that Place In The Spiritual Spitual Realm.’
Rev 11:1-2 KJV And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
There is no suggestion in this portion of Scripture that the Temple was already destroyed, in fact the ‘Court of the Gentiles’ was unique to Herod’s Temple which was destroyed in AD 70. ‘Measuring’ was used elsewhere in Scripture prior to God’s Judgement…’ 2 Samuel 8:2; 2 Kings 21:13. Revelation 11:1-2 was a ‘measuring’ of the Temple prior to its destruction in AD 70.
Quote ‘Since this Hub is ABOUT "Time" and The Book Of Revelation is CLEARLY a "Temporal Vision", whether The Writing was before AD 70 or by the close of the First Century AD, is not TODAY what is MOST important; BUT, error IS pounced on by atheists to condemn The Truth Of The Faith, so 'We" had BETTER GET IT RIGHT – Amen’
In my opinion what is more important is ‘not TODAY’ but dispelling myths and getting it right, because whatever is taught about the ‘End Times’ influences the priorities and worldview of the believer.
Quote ‘JESUS Prophesied The Survival from Certain Death by BOILING OIL (and other murder attempts) Over the young John some 48 years earlier.’
Can you provide Scriptural support for John’s deliverance from boiling in oil and Jesus’ prophecy 48 years earlier?
Quote ‘It is well established historical fact that the enraged domitian then sent John to The Patmos Prison (after the murder attempt spectacularly FAILED) and either nerva or trajan pardoned and released John - THE WORK OF THE LORD Throughout.’
Can you provide the ‘well established historical fact’ to support your explanation of the timing of John’s imprisonment on Patmos c AD 95? This is exactly why I wrote the Hub, I couldn’t find one.
Quote ‘PS : John read The Book of Hebrews. John read James & Peter's Writings. Book Of Revelation References In Hebrews, James, Peter and elsewhere ARE Spiritual Mirrors.’
Finally with reference to your second comment, if this is regarding my chart which lists unique phrases in The Revelation, are you suggesting that John read these unique phrases in Hebrews, the Epistles of James and Peter and then included them in The Revelation? Surely not! In my opinion the writer to the Hebrews and James read and quoted from The Revelation; it would diminish the credibility of The Revelation if your suggestion is correct.
We do agree that John’s Gospel was written Pre-AD 70 and I trust we can agree to differ on other matters. I respect the amount of research you have done having browsed the Website links on your Hubs and trust you will continue to visit my Hubs. I look forward to reading more of your Hubs in the future.
Bless you brother for taking the time to reply - TRUTH is very important...
Okay some replies :
1) re : If this is a reference John 21:22 I am not convinced that John’s vision on Patmos was the fulfilment of this prophecy.
NO - IT IS A REFERENCE TO JOHN SURVIVING SEVERAL MURDER ATTEMPTS, NOTABLY, MIRACULOUSLY, BEING BOILED IN OIL ON THE ORDERS OF DOMITIAN IN ROME.
JOHN WAS "PRESERVED" BY THE MIRACLES AND THEN WAS PRESENT WHEN JESUS VISITED HIM IN PATMOS - AS PROPHESIED - AMEN
SOURCES (multiple concurring) :
http://www.born-again-christian.info/answers/was-t
http://ecclesia.org/truth/martyrdom.html
The Christian writers of the second and third centuries testify to us as a tradition universally recognized and doubted by no one that the Apostle and Evangelist John lived in Asia Minor in the last decades of the first century and from Ephesus had guided the Churches of that province. In his "Dialogue with Tryphon" (Chapter 81) St. Justin Martyr refers to "John, one of the Apostles of Christ" as a witness who had lived "with us", that is, at Ephesus. St. Irenæus speaks in very many places of the Apostle John and his residence in Asia and expressly declares that he wrote his Gospel at Ephesus (Against Heresies III.1.1), and that he had lived there until the reign of Trajan (loc. cit., II, xxii, 5). With Eusebius (Church History III.13.1) and others we are obliged to place the Apostle's banishment to Patmos in the reign of the Emperor Domitian (81-96). Previous to this, according to Tertullian's testimony (De praescript., xxxvi), John had been thrown into a cauldron of boiling oil before the Porta Latina at Rome without suffering injury. After Domitian's death the Apostle returned to Ephesus during the reign of Trajan, and at Ephesus he died about A.D. 100 at a great age. Tradition reports many beautiful traits of the last years of his life: that he refused to remain under the same roof with Cerinthus (Irenaeus "Ad. haer.", III, iii, 4); his touching anxiety about a youth who had become a robber (Clemens Alex., "Quis dives salvetur", xiii); his constantly repeated words of exhortation at the end of his life, "Little children, love one another" (Jerome, "Comm. in ep. ad. Gal.", vi, 10). On the other hand the stories told in the apocryphal Acts of John, which appeared as early as the second century, are unhistorical invention.
SCRIPTURE :
† John 21 : 23 - 24 †
"Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."
2) Re : "There is no suggestion in this portion of Scripture that the Temple was already destroyed, in fact the ‘Court of the Gentiles’ was unique to Herod’s Temple which was destroyed in AD 70. ‘Measuring’ was used elsewhere in Scripture prior to God’s Judgement…’ 2 Samuel 8:2; 2 Kings 21:13. Revelation 11:1-2 was a ‘measuring’ of the Temple prior to its destruction in AD 70."
Please note carefully :
Ezekiel 40 : 1 - 4
"In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither.
In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south. And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate. And the man said unto me, Son of man, behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee; for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel. And behold a wall on the outside of the house round about, and in the man's hand a measuring reed of six cubits long by the cubit and an hand breadth: so he measured the breadth of the building, one reed; and the height, one reed."
This TEMPLE did NOT PHYSICALLY EXIST and yet was carefully Measured for Architectural Reasons.
Likewise, The Temple destroyed in AD 70 was Measured In The Vision in Revelation.
The Point of this is NOT a physical thing, but a Spiritual Revelation.
In this Subject - (GLORY to JESUS Only - Amen) i am an "authority" - The Angel took John to a PLACE IN TIME to Measure The Temple "BECAUSE" IT HAD BEEN DESTROYED.
That Place In Time PRE-DATED AD 70, probably AD 33.5 - Amen
This is a Book Of Visions. Of COURSE John did not go to THE PHYSICAL LOCATION, in like manner as Ezekiel.
3). Re : "Jesus referred to Daniel’s prophecy when He said ‘…whoso readeth, let him understand…’ He told His disciples to flee into the mountains when they see the ‘Abomination of Desolation’; this was fulfilled when the Remnant Church fled to the mountains of Pella during the Roman/Jewish war, which was prior to the destruction of the Temple in AD 70…Matthew 24:2."
Prophecy is like mirrors that face each other, echoes across time.
READ CAREFULLY, "NO ABOMINATION STOOD ON THE TEMPLE SITE" IT WAS SIMPLY DESTROYED TOTALLY BY TITUS AS DANIEL PROPHESIED.
ALL THE PAGAN STUFF THAT DID HAPPEN SOON DIED OUT BY AD 325
HOWEVER, BY AD 692 THE REAL ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE, THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT PROPHESIED THROUGH DANIEL AND JESUS WAS COMPLETED, standing where it ought NOT to this very hour.
"So Saith The Lord" - Amen
HERE'S A PICTURE OF IT : (Will have to make a hub of this later smile) :
http://www.constellation7.org/AbominationOfDesolat
4) re : Can you provide the ‘well established historical fact’ to support your explanation of the timing of John’s imprisonment on Patmos c AD 95? This is exactly why I wrote the Hub, I couldn’t find one.
JOHN WAS BOILED IN OIL AND SURVIVED UNDER THE RULE OF DOMITIAN.
DOMITIAN RULED FROM AD 81 - until his death in AD 96. nerva ruled from AD 96 - AD 98. trajan from AD 98 - AD 117.
Source : http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250103.htm
Chapter 19. Domitian commands the Descendants of David to be slain.
But when this same Domitian had commanded that the descendants of David should be slain, an ancient tradition says that some of the heretics brought accusation against the descendants of Jude (said to have been a brother of the Saviour according to the flesh), on the ground that they were of the lineage of David and were related to Christ himself. Hegesippus relates these facts in the following words.
Chapter 20. The Relatives of our Saviour.
These things are related by Hegesippus.
9. Tertullian also has mentioned Domitian in the following words: "Domitian also, who possessed a share of Nero's cruelty, attempted once to do the same thing that the latter did. But because he had, I suppose, some intelligence, he very soon ceased, and even recalled those whom he had banished."
10. But after Domitian had reigned fifteen years, and Nerva had succeeded to the empire, the Roman Senate, according to the writers that record the history of those days, voted that Domitian's honors should be cancelled, and that those who had been unjustly banished should return to their homes and have their property restored to them.
11. It was at this time that the apostle John returned from his banishment in the island and took up his abode at Ephesus, according to an ancient Christian tradition.
Chapter 23. Narrative Concerning John the Apostle.
1. At that time the apostle and evangelist John, the one whom Jesus loved, was still living in Asia, and governing the churches of that region, having returned after the death of Domitian from his exile on the island.
2. And that he was still alive at that time may be established by the testimony of two witnesses. They should be trustworthy who have maintained the orthodoxy of the Church; and such indeed were Irenæus and Clemen
Since I last commented on this hub I have found information that John's revelatory account was that of the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. http://www.bible-history.com/resource/ff_vesu.htm
Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 14:10 - The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 9:18 - By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Revelation 9:17 - And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Elijah7
Thank you for your comment.
Lady Guinevere
Thank you for your comment. I haven't heard this before can you explain in more detail?
This John who wrote Revelations was watching the eruption from a mountain top when he wrote about it and it some how got into the bible. If you read it like a book and not split by verses you will see a story unfold. Try to see it from the writers view if he were looking at a cataclyzm he had never seen before.
I don't know how to add more when I cannot see the comment that I posted. I gave you a link too in that comment.
searchinsany : THIS CLOSING PART OF THE ABOVE POST WAS MISSED.
Love and Blessings - E
3. The former in the second book of his work Against Heresies, writes as follows: "And all the elders that associated with John the disciple of the Lord in Asia bear witness that John delivered it to them. For he remained among them until the time of Trajan."
4. And in the third book of the same work he attests the same thing in the following words: "But the church in Ephesus also, which was founded by Paul, and where John remained until the time of Trajan, is a faithful witness of the apostolic tradition."
5. Clement likewise in his book entitled What Rich Man can be saved? indicates the time, and subjoins a narrative which is most attractive to those that enjoy hearing what is beautiful and profitable. Take and read the account which runs as follows:
6. Listen to a tale, which is not a mere tale, but a narrative concerning John the apostle, which has been handed down and treasured up in memory. For when, after the tyrant's death, he returned from the isle of Patmos to Ephesus, he went away upon their invitation to the neighboring territories of the Gentiles, to appoint bishops in some places, in other places to set in order whole churches, elsewhere to choose to the ministry some one of those that were pointed out by the Spirit.
QED BROTHER - Revelation was Written AFTER AD 81.
Have this ALSO In The Spirit - that John was on Patmos for SEVEN YEARS from AD 91 - AD 98. domitian FAILED to Boil JOHN in Oil in AD 91 and SENT HIM TO PATMOS AFTER MANY WERE SAVED BECAUSE OF THE MIRACLE.
John MUST have lived into The Second Century and went to Paradise at an EXTREMELY OLD AGE...As Prophesied By The Lord - AMEN
Brother - you DO Believe In Miracles right ?
FINALLY : Yes, John DID Read Hebrews, James and Peter.
The SAME Holy Spirit that "GAVE" key texts in THESE EPISTLES, Gave The Same to John in Patmos - AMEN & AMEN
† Revelation 20 : 5 - 6 †
"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/TheWonder
RIGHT CLICK ALL LINKS HEREIN AND OPEN IN NEW TAB - Selah
Lady Guinevere
Thank you for explaining your original comment; I have posted all your comments.
This is interesting because I have never heard this view before. However I am convinced that John wrote The Revelation before AD 70, I wrote this Hub to prove my point from the Scriptures.
Your comment brings back wonderful memories; I have been privileged to visit Italy including Pompeii which is an awesome experience. In my opinion Italy is a fascinating and beautiful country.
Likewise brother - some material i posted is NOT showing up above either. Can't see LG's prior posted comment also.
LG, have you made a Decision for Christ as Lord and Saviour of your own life?
Took a quick look at your hubs.
Just for Reference, re "reincarnation" : JESUS Is the Final Judge as to who will Live Forever In Paradise / Heaven and who will NOT; especially WHO Will Be HERE in The Soon Coming Millennium Of Perfection, and who will NOT.
Thinking by your hubs that you may not YET have Given your Heart and Life To The Lord..
This CAN Start RIGHT NOW HERE :
http://www.Constellation7.org/TheSimplePrayerOfFai
May God Bless and Guide your decisions In JESUS' Holy Name - Amen
† Acts 2 : 21 †
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
† Acts 4 : 12 †
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
† Mark 16 : 15 - 16 †
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;"
"but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Some Accompanying Music To Power Up The Revelation :
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/Theres-A-
Right Click Links and Open in New Tab to keep this Hub Page in view - Amen
This is all I am going to say about religion"
"?"God is WITHIN YOU. Most do not get it! It means you are part of the creation and you do the creating with your mind. Jesus said to be careful with your thoughts and what you sow you shall reap and that God will never leave you and he will call you when he needs you. YOU are the creator and the God is IN YOU and can never leave you. It is your SOUL. There is no death ..only to the body which is our puppet while we learn about how and why and what we think and how it is manifested and why and all the lessons therein. The Mercy of God is you and your thoughts and so is the things in which you call EVIL because YOU do not understand what you do."
Elijah7
Thank you for your contribution to my Hub, having posted and replied to your comments I reckon we must agree to differ.
I mentioned in the Introduction to my Hub and in my response to your comments that my objective was to prove the Pre AD 70 date of The Revelation by allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture.
I have previously researched the Church Fathers and stand by my resolve. However for the benefit of my Hub visitors I will post links to counterbalance your post.
I shared it on my Google and twitter and a few other places for you
We KNOW you have failed to do this.
There are NO Scriptures that support AD dates in any event.
The AD 70 date is NOT in Scripture - you trust that.
Anyhow, you are selectively WITHOLDING some of my posts.
The Latin Chroniclers got it RIGHT.
The only PROOF available centres in the reign of domitian.
Nero did NOT exile people to Patmos, he beheaded them or some other DEFINITE murder method.
You are essentially DENYING that John was Boiled in Oil by domitian and SURVIVED By a Bona Fide Miracle From JESUS.
domitian would NOT have released John from Patmos.
However, HE WAS RELEASED.
The rest is simple arithmetic, proven history and Holy Logic.
As for LG's comment on religion :
† James 1 : 27 †
"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
END OF STORY...Truth IS Truth - Amen
Elijah7
This is the second time you have falsely accused me of withholding some of your posts, I can assure that I have not.
searchinsany, I have with held ONE of his posts on my What Jesus Told Us About Reincarnation hub. I did explain to him why I did so.
Lady Guinevere
Thank you for your recent comments.
Yes you have sir - my apologies - a tech bug - the comments were NOT showing up for some reason...
Now they are - please forgive me. Not interested in any "false" accusations - NONE.
LG, took a look at the "Vesuvius" theory.
DEFINITELY NOT TRUE.
The key to understanding Chapter 20 of Revelation is something they won't teach in Sunday School : "THE SECOND DEATH"
The Second Death is facilitated BY The Lake Of Fire.
ETERNAL SEPARATION OF THE SOUL FROM GOD AT THE END OF THE GREAT AGE.
This is NOT for OVER 1042 years into the Future MINIMUM.
This happens AT THE END OF THE GOG MAGOG WAR HERE : (Ezekiel 38 - 39)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekie
In ESSENCE, THIS IS WHY JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE ON THE CROSS.
The Second Death HAPPENS to ALL souls who have TURNED DOWN The Free Gift Of Salvation OFFERED By Christ.
The Second Death HAPPENS TO ALL SOULS that ARE NOT IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF ETERNAL LIFE.
All souls that ARE In The Lamb's Book Of Life, LIVE FOREVER, after The END Of The Gog Magog War.
It is at this Point In His-Story that The Devil is CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE; DEATH AND HELL ARE NO LONGER NEEDED - SCRAPPED, and The Universe THEN settles down to the Perfection that WAS, Before The War In Heaven Began - (BEFORE THE GARDEN OF EDEN)
THIS IS WHEN THE TREE OF LIFE IS THEN AVAILABLE FOR ALL, as it "Could" have been some 6012 years ago In The Garden Of Eden.
Mankind was FORBIDDEN this "Fruit" BECAUSE The LORD could NOT have sin soaked souls (From The Fruit Of The Knowledge Of Good and EVIL) living FOREVER.
The whole process spans some 7077 years (APPROX) from Adam TO The Lake of Fire FINAL JUDGMENT.
JESUS and His Church, Desire AS MANY as "Will Come" to AVOID this Second Death - ALLELUIA, AMEN & MARANATHA
Please Study THIS VERY CAREFULLY :
† Revelation 21 : 3 - 8 †
"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
Love, Hope, Blessings and Truth In The Living God - Selah..
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/I-Heard-T
Beautiful Background Music ABOVE for study (Right Click Links to Open)
Elija7, I guess you were there to be able to tell if it was the truth or not. Jesus said that all the OT was not as important as his messae, but we have seen that his message has been omitted fro the Bible by those who claim to be Bible Scholars. Who says they were---the Kings of the day or those who wanted to take souls for their own purposes.... and what did they want---money to Ceasar. Please do you research outside of the Bible to see the whole picture.
I once had a theory similar to this one which you have expressed so well.
But until we can adjust our thinking in such a way as to not neglect to include all pertinate matters ... we are not finished with our research.
Daniel chapter 2 speaks of 4 consecutive kingdoms of which Babylon was the first.
Daniel 8 Names The Medo-Persian empire as being the second and Grecia as being the third.
Daniel 7 speaks again of there being four consecutive kingdoms.
When speaking of the fourth kingdom, Gabriel interpretes this vision as such.
7:23 The fourth beast shall be the "FOURTH" kingdom ..
7:25 The ten horns are ten kings (Titus was the tenth) then the little horn shall arise after the first ten and he shall subdue three kings.
There is only one thing this can mean. How can he subdue three kings who are already dead?
The little horn is the fourth king after the first ten.
Hadrian was the 14th and last emperor of Rome to have dominion over the Hebrew Nation.
Hadrian fulfilled all of the descriptions required to be this little Horn, including the deportation of every last Hebrew which could be found. Every single Hebrew was scattered to the four winds.
When reading Daniel 11, it is difficult for someone such as my self to destinguish exactly when Dominion changes hands from the second and to the third and again to the fourth; but the final verse of C. 11 can be describing no other that the Last king of the fourth kingdom. When he comes to his end shall michael stand up for the children of Daniels people.
And at that time thy people shall be delivered everyone that shall be found written in the book.
For this reason I am a Preterists where the six seals are concerned. These seal judgments were inflicted upon the Hebrew peoples.
And I am a historist where the trumpets and bowls/vials are concerned.
The trumpet judgments were inflicted upon the Roman Empire.
The bowl judgments were inflicted upon the beast which rose up out of the sea Rev. C 13
The longer we look at this picture the more clear it becomes.
Other than that; I liked your Hub.
Hi LG...
Where is JESUS' Message "OMITTED" from the Holy Bible ?
Please explain, because we HONESTLY don't understand what you mean..
Thank you and Bless you In The Lord ALIVE NOW - Amen
Love & Hope...
Elijah †
† John 1 : 1 - 14 †
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/TheKingOf
Beautiful Background Music ABOVE for "MOOD" (Right Click Link to Open)
Here are the WORDS TO READ :
One last comment if I may
You asked ...If The Revelation was written in AD 95, what major event happened within months or a few years of its publication that could be seen as fulfilling the great sense of imminence contained within its pages?
My answer would be this When we read Daniel 9 and understand that when Cyrus declared that God hast CHARGED (ordered) Cyrus to build him a house in Jerusalem (the city had been totally destroyed in 586) So this declaration had to have included building the city. And Gabriel said that the command hast gone forth.
This chapter is saying that from 538 BC it shall be 62 weeks unto the Messiah being killed.
568 years later they did.
568 years is the same period of time as 62 weeks.
A week =s 9.16 of our years.
It shall be 69 weeks unto Messiah the Prince.
the 69th week came to fullment in 96 AD
the 70th week in 105AD
30 years later the last Jewish revolt broke out. I think it lasted 3 1/2 years?
I believe that every last prophesy that was given to that Hebrew Nation would have been fulfilled before that Nation ceased to exist.
Please excuse me for intruding. and May God bless us all.
Hay Ekijha hOPE ALL IS WELL .. you ask Where is JESUS' Message "OMITTED" from the Holy Bible ?
Please explain, because we HONESTLY don't understand what you mean..
- = - = -
ME
The bible admits to that being the case.
It said that Jesus did and said so many things that the world couldn't contain as many books as it would take to tell about it all
And then added "but this is all we are going it include in the cannon.
We will let Paul explain the rest of it instead of writting more of "Jesus SAID IT' kind of wisdom.
Meant with all kindness
Jerami
Thank you for reading and leaving interesting comments on my Hub. I will respond as soon as I have given them more thought.
AMEN & AMEN brother ....... Maranatha
† Matthew 5 : 1 - 20 †
"And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that
are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/Third-Day
Some more lovely Theme Music Above (right click to open) Amen
With Love & Truth..
Elijah †
Elija7, It is not my place to say this; BUT, why are you copy and pasting scriptures which has no connection to this mans hub.
It seems to only be disrupting the natural flow of conversation of his comment section.
If this is the intent? It isn't a very Christian thing to do.
If I am wrong? Please accept my apologies.
If I am right ...? May many blessings go with you.
Eliza7 wrote ...There are NO Scriptures that support AD dates in any event.
ME
There are verses through out Old and New testament that screams of the fact that everything preached by Jesus himself was fulfilled in the first century and no later than 138 AD.
If Jesus was standing in front of YOU and said to YOU, "This" generation shall not pass untill all these things happen" Who would you naturally assume he was talking to? And what generation would you presume he was talking about?
We need to take this into account whenever scripture says that Jesus was talking to any particular person, "Especially" where it specifically says that this was a "Private" conversation.
Otherwise we can assume that when Jesus said to Lazarus "Rise and come out" he was talking to me or you.
It isn't right for me to do this in anothers hub so I'll exit now.
searchinsany my apologies.
Jerami - Only for LG that is contributing also...
NO OFFENCE IS EVER INTENDED - AMEN
No Scriptures came with AD DATES, is all that was meant.
For The Record - The GENERATION that CAN SEE ALL OF THE EVENTS COMING TO PASS (or HAVING COME TO PASS), will NOT PASS AWAY, until JESUS RETURNS.
A study of History & Prophecy PUTS THIS HOLY CHURCH GENERATION in such a Unique Category - HOPE & AMEN †
† Matthew 25 : 30 - 36 †
"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
† This Generation ALIVE NOW, can study the REAL NOAH'S ARK. †
This Generation ALIVE NOW, can study ALL of Tribulation History.
This Generation ALIVE NOW, sees this world FILLED WITH VIOLENCE - ALL THE TIME - NEWS, TELEVISION & MOVIES.
This Generation ALIVE NOW, HAS A FASCINATION WITH "DINOSAURS" Giants In The Earth...Natural History, false theories of EVIL-ution & animated movies - (Jurassic Park ET AL)
† "This Generation ALIVE NOW, is Witnessing UNPRECEDENTED GLOBAL EVANGELISM - The Righteous Preacher's CRY - "Get On Board The Ark Of The Church - AMEN & AMEN" †
Jerami
I think we may differ regarding the ‘timeline'.
The Old Testament Scriptures were directly written to Old Covenant Israel, Moses and Daniel both prophesied the events in the ‘latter days’ of the Old Covenant Age. The Old Testament contained many types and shadows, Christ being the anti-type. The New Testament reveals the complete fulfilment of the Old Covenant.
With this in mind The Revelation was written to encourage the 1st Century Church during the Great Tribulation and all its content was completed by AD 70.
Daniel’s 70 Weeks Prophecy was completely fulfilled during the lifetime of Jesus’ generation.
Daniel 7 described in more detail the fourth beast; the Roman Empire.
‘…there came up among them another little horn…’...Daniel 7:8. Nero Caesar was the little horn that 'came up among them' and the sixth of the ten emperors.
The ten kings were the ten emperors of the Roman Empire to AD 70, Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Gaius, Claudius, Nero, Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and Vespasian.
Daniel 11 was a detailed account of the kings who would influence world history until the time of the Messiah. For example Xerxes, Alexander the Great, Antiochus IV Epiphanes and Julius Caesar.
As I understand it there were three decrees issued by the Persian kings, 536 BC; 457 BC; 444 BC. Many scholars contend that the principle one of these was 457 BC.
By adding 483 years (7weeks + 62 Weeks) to 457 BC it brings the time-line to AD 26, the very year that Jesus began His public ministry.
‘And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off…’ The crucifixion was three and a half years into the 70th Week. The remaining three and a half years was the duration of the Jewish/Roman war from AD 66 to AD 70, culminating in the destruction of the Temple, Jerusalem and the dispersion of the Jews, thereby fulfilling Matthew 24:34.
These are my thoughts at this point in time.
So you ARE THEN saying that the moslem antichrist empire, The First and Second World Wars, adolf hitler and The Holocaust, PRECEDING Israel's RESTORATION are NOT In The Holy Book Of Daniel or in The Prophecies ?????
"We" KNOW VERY DIFFERENTLY and CAN PROVE THE SAME.....
† Daniel 8 : 19 - 27 †
"And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
"And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, † and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. †
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it."
SPOT THE NAZI HOLOCAUST PROPHECY - ABOVE HEREIN !!!!!!!
NOTE : "The LAST END of The Indignation !!!"
† Numbers 12 : 6 †
And he said, Hear now my words: "If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream."
Hallo.....it's a REAL Pleasure to make your acquaintance...
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/C7-Music/DaysOfEli
Enjoy the words of this New Song above - Amen & Amen...
MARANATHA....
searchinsany
Though I agree with most of what you have said, I have to disagree about Nero being the little horn as interpreted by “GABRIEL” in Daniel 7:24
Daniel only describes his vision. Then Gabriel gives the meaning of the vision.
Daniel 7:24 “And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise; and another shall rise AFTER them. Going by how Gabriel interprets the vision this little horn could not be one of the first ten kings. After the first ten kings there were three others and then Hadrian becomes king replaces these three.
And I can agree with everything you said about chapter 11 also, remembering that 11:45 is speaking of the little horn. “And at that time shall Michael stand up, …”
In my way of thinking; whether Revelation was written before 70 AD or after has little consequence In comparison to identifying who the little horn was.
There are many points of interest contained in the book of Daniel which with very little interpretation, coincides with the entire chapter of Matthew 24. But to get the full picture we have to examine the similarities also found when the six seals are opened.
It is my opinion that the six seals are describing these same events as Jesus describes them in Matthew 24.
The greater number of pieces of the puzzle that we fit together, the greater number of pieces we see.
For what it's worth, after the DELETION of my Comment in the "What is the Question?" Forum...(have NO IDEA which person caused THAT to happen)...
The little horn IS "The United States of America"..
The Three that fell ARE : Germany, Japan & Italy.
The Fourth Great Beast IS Global and BUILDING NON-STOP RIGHT NOW.
† Daniel 11 † IS a Gigantic Prophecy of islam.
If you REALLY can take time to study and read (in media formats) the FULL DETAILS are here (several hours deep thought) :-
http://www.TheSevenThunders.org/Genesis
See you ...
† Daniel 7 : 23 & 27 †
"Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces."
"And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him."
Maranatha †
Jerami
Thank you for your contribution, keep in touch so that we may compare notes. I will make a point of reading your Hubs.
In my opinion the kingdoms in Daniel 8 are:
Medo Persian Empire…536 to 332 BC
Macedonian Greek Empire under Alexander the Great…331 to 323 BC
Ptolomies rule Egypt & Seleucids rule Syria…323 to 146 BC
Antiochus Epiphanes…175 to 164 BC
searchinsany
Do you consider then that antiochus epiphanes WAS The Abomination That Maketh Desolate ?
† Revelation 19 : 10 †
"And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Antiochus Epiphanes was not the abomination of desolation. Antiochus (175-164 BC) does not fit the timeline of Daniel's 70 Weeks Prophecy, the 490 years were fulfilled during the lifetime of Jesus’ generation.
Mat 24:15-16 KJV When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
'...When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation...' Jesus spoke to His disciples and told them when they see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, flee into the mountains.
Luk 21:20-21 KJV And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
‘…when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh…’ Jesus also told His disciples what the abomination of desolation was and when to expect it, and to flee into the mountains; His generation was eye witness to the fulfilment of the most amazing prophecy ever recorded in the Scriptures.
Glad you said that - SOME in the past HAVE made that false claim - OBVIOUSLY oblivious to The Word Of God...
Maranatha †
† Malachi 4 : 5 - 6 †
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
What's your take on This Prophecy ???
My Hub 'The Last Days: Will Elijah the Prophet Really Return? explains my view on Malachi 4.
Thanks brother - haven't seen that - will scroll on by...
This Subject TRULY makes my neck click...
† Matthew 17 : 10 - 12 †
"And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them."
Good morning ... Please excuse me If I sound too bold in this comment which I feel so strongly about.
This just my opinion, … understanding the timeframe comparing prophetic time against our time is paramount. Without doing so, understanding prophesy is impossible.
I believe that when the Lord is speaking to a Man, God uses terms which is common to human understanding.
When he said, lie on your left side for 70 days, for each day will represent a year that Jerusalem lies desolate. God could have said eat 70 apples for each apple represents a year (or any other such comparison).
This is in no way comparing a day or eating an apple to the prophetic timeframe.
When God gives a message to an angel, he uses terminology the angel best understands. The angel then delivers the message exactly as it was given to him.
So what we are really doing is attempting to understand how angelic terminology compares to human terminology.
When God says to a human, It shall be 70 years, he is speaking of 70 of our years.
An angel, when interpreting visions never use the term "year" except when speaking of what a year represents to us.
To us, A year means 52.28 weeks
To an angel the phrase "Time" means 52.28 of his weeks.
Now, all we have to do is to determine how many of our years is in an angelic week.
The only place in scripture that makes this comparison is in Daniel 9.
All we have to do now is to determine when the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem went forth, because from that time, it shall be 62 weeks and then someone will kill the Messiah.
Around 600 BC (ISIAH 44:28) God declares that Cyrus will perform this duty.
In Daniel 9:23 Gabriel declares that the commandment came forth when Daniel began praying and making supplications.
For ME there is no further need to "Discover" exactly when this command came forth; For it is clearly stated.
Some scholars want us to believe that this command came forth around 450 BC when the command came forth to "Finish" that which had already begun.
I can not agree with that!
If there really was a devil walking the earth trying to confuse us, this issue would most certainly be of great importance to him. ???
God said it will be so,
The longer we ponder the word of God, the more likely we will be deceived.
I believe that Cyrus gave this command exactly as God said that he WOULD.
I believe the commandment went forth in 538 BC as Gabriel said that it DID.
I believe Jesus is the Messiah this verse is talking about.
Therefore I have no recourse than to believe 62 weeks in prophesy is equal to 568 of our years.
That is, until someone shows me something that I have yet to consider.
And thank you for these discussions.
Jerami
Your comments are always welcome.
Hi Jerami : RE your quote :
"" Some scholars want us to believe that this command came forth around 450 BC when the command came forth to "Finish" that which had already begun.
I can not agree with that! ""
Why can't you agree with proven History ?
The BC date is ACCURATE.
Scholars and theologians (often) are NOT prophets.
And again : quote :
"" The longer we ponder the word of God, the more likely we will be deceived. ""
THIS IS DEFINITELY INCORRECT.
The LONGER we Spend with The Word Of God, THE BETTER - Amen
Finally : quote :
"" If there really was a devil walking the earth trying to confuse us, this issue would most certainly be of great importance to him. ??? ""
What do you mean "IF" ?
† 1 Peter 5 : 8 †
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"
Jerami - searchinsany...
Further details on the 1 Week = 7 years Prophetic Timeline Revelation are now in Jerami's hub comments section here :
http://jerami.hubpages.com/hub/A-Day-equals-13-yea
Blessings....
† Matthew 7:13-14 †
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Lady Guinevere Level 6 Commenter 4 months ago
Thanks for the information. Well written and researched hub.